tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post9007299897000231162..comments2024-02-07T08:32:53.306+00:00Comments on Stabbed Up: Pacifism and video gamesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-52848006804791435912011-10-03T02:07:55.055+01:002011-10-03T02:07:55.055+01:00Killing monsters is hardly peaceful.Killing monsters is hardly peaceful.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-91110841227686302632011-10-02T23:08:27.333+01:002011-10-02T23:08:27.333+01:00I'm not clear why PvE games aren't conside...I'm not clear why PvE games aren't considered pacifist. Games like WoW are fairly pacifist because PvP doesn't form a large part of the game (from what I gather it's more an afterthought). Aggressive behavior against computer-run opponents is in my view a far cry from aggressive behavior against human opponents.Karl Hallowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02011583095865586408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-60585850631417210302011-09-26T22:25:19.199+01:002011-09-26T22:25:19.199+01:00Hmm. I think I'm too distracted by some of the...Hmm. I think I'm too distracted by some of the statements/assumptions to comment on the gameplay aspect.<br /><br />Jesus who stopped the disciples from fighting to prevent his death (which was his whole purpose for being here) was also the Jesus who told them to buy the swords in the first place, as well as the Jesus who drove the moneychangers out of the temple with a whip. I'm not sure you could classify him as pacifist, particularly when you add in that Joshua's conquest of Canaan was divinely ordered, and Sodom and Gomorrah in the mix and so forth.<br /><br />It also bothers me that there is an assumption that dirty tricks are only taken of by hawks. Ther are certainly plenty of pacifists on military matters who will lie, bribe, and steal for power. There have even been people who were militarily pacifist but committed murders for their cause (contradictory, but then humans often are). It also assumes that all people who favor military action do so because military action is their goal. Chamberlain is an apt picture; Churchill favored military action not because he desired war but because he understood, which Chamberlain did not, that Hitler could not be reasoned with and could only be stopped through war.<br /><br />As a game, assuming those concepts outlined, I'd tend to think your player population would be almost exclusively hardcore pacifist activists and generic griefers. The acitvists might be drawn to the glorification of pacifism. The griefers would be drawn to the chance to make the pacifists miserable. The normal "hawk" types would be offended by the viewpoint painted of their side, and the casual people would find the whole thing too boring.Snickering Corpseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11207827630539622815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-67677095048266078542011-09-26T04:30:12.082+01:002011-09-26T04:30:12.082+01:00There are already a number of MMOs that lack comba...There are already a number of MMOs that lack combat. For example, Myst Online URU is utterly free, has very nice graphics, and features core game play that consists entirely of solving puzzles. <br /><br />The problem is that no-one plays them. For whatever reason, few players will get invested in a game that doesn't have combat. Does that mean humans are bloodthirsty assholes? Does it mean that as a psychological outlet being able to beat the crap out of virtual beings is more cathartic than solving puzzles? I really have no idea. I think u've raised an important question regardless.Yeebohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08028940396189544294noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-62589214522324460722011-09-24T18:40:01.844+01:002011-09-24T18:40:01.844+01:00@ Eek Thanks for your comment and for the tip abou...@ Eek Thanks for your comment and for the tip about Seed. I wish I had tried it. There's a game called a Tale in the Desert too which is also non-combat which I keep meaning to have a look at.<br /><br />@James Ah but that's the joy of blogging - we can imagine and share virtual games and pretend we're playing them :)<br /><br />@ Spinksville yeah, I think the flaw is not so much that hawks will win (that's just balance and one can skew the odds), it's that doves might simply not be fun. Grind teaching for a month then get passed over for a promotion. Oh and your hoodie pupils are looting Currys. It would only be fun if the design were utterly brilliant and you could influence your pupils in ways that are both a fun game and a realistic simulation. That would be hard to implement, damn hard.Stabshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08716211705647213383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-54359574700583306542011-09-24T16:51:27.153+01:002011-09-24T16:51:27.153+01:00Interesting thought. I wonder if it would be just ...Interesting thought. I wonder if it would be just straight up easier to win as a warmonger, because you know for sure all the griefers would pick that style.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-43509424565272187282011-09-24T12:09:51.410+01:002011-09-24T12:09:51.410+01:00The problem is marketing. Nobody wants a game like...The problem is marketing. Nobody wants a game like you describe, because the executives and such will look at it and ask where the hook is, where the story comes from. Not to knock pacifism as a concept - that'd be a whole 'nother argument - it's accepted as fact in the entertainment industry as a whole, not just in gaming, that conflict = drama = consumer interest. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, which is once of if not the most popular entry in the Star Trek franchise, a franchise that one could argue represents an overall positive look at our future, is also one of if not the most violent Star Trek movie.<br /><br />The fact of the matter is that human beings, for the most part, are wired for conflict - even our most basic response, fight or flight, represents that. It's part of our psyche, it's part of our religions (most of them), and it's part of our societies. I don't see us getting away from it from something like our escapist fantasies, at least until we change mankind as a whole.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12509880829906881465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8829401646612727780.post-6880983163977889962011-09-24T10:03:58.211+01:002011-09-24T10:03:58.211+01:00The closest MMO I've come across to a pacifist...The closest MMO I've come across to a pacifist one is Seed:<br><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed_%28computer_game%29" rel="nofollow">Seed on Wikipedia</a><br>There was no combat, and gameplay consisted of maintenance work on machinery. Ultimately there was meant to be a political side to it, but they never got there because the company went bankrupt. I tried it when it when it first came out (they released it way too early to try to raise funds) because I loved the idea of something completely different, but unfortunately the game just wasn't ready for public consumption: the gameplay was monotonous (although I'm not sure it was any more so than killing 200 rats to level up, for example), and the controls were abysmal. It was still sad to see it flounder so pathetically, though.<br><br>What I've always wanted is an MMO (or an offline RPG for that matter) which takes the emphasis off levelling up, but while still having levels; so it wouldn't show you how long you had until the next level, and would have different people require different, random, amounts of xp to get to the next level. I think most people would hate it, but maybe then people might actually find fun things to do in the game rather than just trying to find the most efficient way to level up, which so many MMOs seem to deteriorate to. I know, for some people that's what they find fun - I don't think it would be very popular :)Eeknoreply@blogger.com